Iron Gauntlet lists for WMW

So I have a few possibilities to consider. The three casters I am thinking about running are: PDenni, Scav, and PSkarre. There are two builds of the PDenni list that I have been thinking about. I will post everything below.

PDenni +5
Skarlock 2
Defiler 5
Rorsh and Brine 9
-Road Hog 9
Aikos 3
-Kraken 19
Pistol Wraith x2 6
Siren 2

PDenni Tier 4
PDenni +5
Skarlock 2
Stalker x4 16
Ripjaw 0
nightwretch 4
Seether x2 18
Siren x4 8
Max Mechanithralls 5
Skarlock Commander 1
Brute Thrall 1

The tier gives me a +1 to the starting roll, Advance Deployment for Sirens, and Advance Move for the Seethers.

Scaverous +5
Skarlock 2
Deathjack 12
Nightwretch 4
Wraith Engine 9
Siren x2 4
Pistol Wraith x2 6
Gorman 2
Orin 2
Withershadow 5
Cephalyx Overlords 4
Min Biles 5

PSkarre +6
Skarlock 2
Erebus 8
Darragh 4
Satyxis Capt 2
Gerlak 3
Ogrun Bokur 3
Siren 2
Max Bane Riders 11
Max Soulhunters 9
Max Satyxis Raiders 8
Sea Witch 2
Necrosurgeon 2

Let's have your thoughts!!!

Didn't want to leave you hanging, but I don't have much feedback right now.

Still need to think on this a bit.

The first list is solid, but I would have to see the second list in action to get a feel for it.

I think the Skarre list is better in general than the Scaverous list. But I think both are good, so it would depend on match-ups. Scaverous is probably hurt more by spell immunity?

Hanging is apparently where I am meant to be left!! Iron gauntlet is three lists no??

Interesting lists, as always, Lou. The first pDenny list is pretty mean and feel fragile. I'd never play it because I lose pDenny to a light breeze (or someone at the next table farting), but you've got more finesse there. It really feels like the loss of any piece starts to unravel the whole list. Do you have particular matchups you're looking to drop this against? Matchups where you 100% will not drop it?

The second pDenny list is much more my speed, and I think it would be a blast to play. Threat vectors everywhere, and none of them are crucial to finishing the game (i.e., built-in redundancy). I would like to see a Necrosurgeon in there somewhere, but I think you'd have to cut a Stalker to do it...

I've been playing with Scaverous, when I get to play, and I think he's got serious game. I love him with the battle engine and most of the other stuff you've got there. I understand the Overlords, but I haven't seem them on the table to know if they earn their keep.

pSkarre is so ball-crunching, it's hard to go wrong. I do wonder about Erebus and the Bokur, considering the Inflictor's existence. You're usually two steps ahead of me, so I'm curious about that decision. Otherwise, I think you've got an interesting trio here that asks some tough questions.

pDenny
I'm not sold on either list. I like all the pieces, but with Denny...I dunno. I assume this is the heavy-skewish list to combat traditional anti-Cryx drops?

The Coven does more with the first list, since they can deliver it all with the feat and Occultation for the Oh-My-God so important Rorsh. I would consider straight up transposing that list into a Coven slot. Also, since no one else has asked: Road Hog? Really? What's the plan there - and is it better than having a Wraith Engine?

The second list doesn't do much for me. Hurling Seethers at people without extra movement shenanigans isn't going to slow them up all that much. If we're trying to hit a less-infantry sweet spot for list chicken, what about Morty (or, as mentioned, the Coven)? I also think McThralls with no Surgeon is going to disappoint.

Scaverous
I like this list a lot. It is going to mess up opposing Cryx (or other dude-heavy) lists something fierce. This is a variation on the tier list you've had a lot of success with, right? How important is Orin?

Have you considered R&B here? Them plus TK makes for a hell of a bullet...

pSkarre
I don't think the Inflictor is out yet, otherwise I agree with Mike, that's strictly better than the 11 point Bokur/Erebus combo. The all-SPD 7 list is fucking terrifying with her. This is the list people should be planning for in Cryx, I think. The Raiders under the feat are going to get to something, and the 11 Cav models with +5 ARM at -2 to damage rolls are going to be putting on the hurt for the rest of the game.

I actually wonder about Ragman here for the post-feat damage bump for Soulhunters and Riders. I'd be willing to cut a Siren for him.

YAAAAAYYY, DISCUSSION!! Alright guys, I have a couple of answers to the questions posed. The first PDenni list is very difficult for an opponent to answer. It is a very non-traditional PDenni build, and the anti-cryx tech doesn't scare it. Between the feat and crip grasp, it is hard to remove anything from my side of the table. Why the road hog?? Ghost walk with a 10" spray, that causes fire, is hilarious. He sprays every turn while also being kept safe. The second reason is that fire on a parasited caster is even more hilarious!

The second PDenni list is all about tilting the table. Can you deal with DEF 16 stalkers if you are MAT -4? Probably not. Seethers are focus efficient in an already focus-hungry battlegroup. They also hit extremely hard in this list. Mechanithralls are there because they are five points of second wave. The list is unproven, but dangerous on paper. Believe me nick, the witch coven are always in the back of my mind.

I love the scavvy list. It has been great on the table. Orin is annoying and tk with Gorman is just unfair.

The skarre list has been as good as expected. Does she want an inflictor? FUCK YEAH SHE DOES, AND SO DO I!!! That's the problem, he is not even on the calendar. I like the Ragman for the siren, that change is being made for sure.

Thanks for reading guys. I will put into motion no all of the suggestions. I am even going to implant the coven into list one

pDenny certainly makes it hard to kill these pieces - but where do you drop these lists? I'm just having a hard time picturing any three list combination, in any faction, where I'd be excited about putting this down.

The other thing to consider, that we haven't talked about at all, is your 75 point plan. I don't think you want to be doing that on the fly - although pSkarre is an awfully good default, and adding the Kraken and a Wraith Engine is certainly an easy way to bump up close to 75 points.

That, however, lacks the reach to scalp out the jack and beast support that folks HAVE to bring at 75. I'd worry about a tuned 75 being able to Rube Goldberg a way to kill more than average on your feat turn and leaving your with scraps to deal with 1 or 2 colossals or a hard-hitting anchor caster.

I'm overthinking this, but cut me some slack. I don't get to..what do you call it..."play the game" very often these days.

I am not sure if you are talking about PDenni, or all of the lists, in your first statement. If you are asking about all three lists, then I would say PSkarre's match-ups are pretty self-explanatory, Scaverous is great against Cryx, Khador, and any other army that would spam infantry, and PDenni is PDenni dude. PDenni does not have to many bad match-ups as the feat is absolutely ball-busting.

The original plan was to scale PDenni by swapping out almost everything in her list, in favor of duel cav, and the Wraith Engine. Unless I am reading the Iron Gauntlet rules incorrectly, that would work. Skarre would be the obvious choice, and the one I hope the opponent would think about most at 75.

It is all about TRYING to stay ahead of the mass meta. This plan may fail miserably, but if folks show up and are only expecting to deal with cryx by taking anti-infantry stuff, then shame on them.

And respect for that. I'm excited to see how this setup does - and even more excited that there are more ways than this to accomplish the not-just-infantry Cryx setup.

I was asking explicitly about pDenny. SHE doesn't usually run into any problems, but these lists are a little different than normal. The first list, especially, with 3 battlegroups, is significantly less redundant than I usually like with her.

My first thought was that it would have a zillion bad matchups - anyone that can snipe out support pieces, a problem compounded by your low model count. The second pDenny list is less matchup dependent, and is something much closer to my comfort zone. 4 Sirens is a LOT of Venom going around, and 4 Stalkers, as you said, are going to give people fits.

Really interested in hearing how testing goes, basically

I should have something to post on Wednesday night

...

I played the pdenni list against eabby, who is mean by the way, and it went pretty well. I was aggressive with Denni, exposing her in order to get a max feat turn while connecting with a crip grasp on Abby. Brine arrived, due to movement shenanigans by Rorsh, but somehow couldn't finish the job. The kraken killed her with his final shot.

Scav +5
Dj 12
Nightwretch 4
AIKOS 3
Nightmare 10
skarlock 2
Siren 2
Gorman 2
Withershadow 5
Pistol wraith x2 6
Min biles 5
Overlords 4

Anyone know a therapist?!? I have some serious list A.D.D going on!!!

In a vacuum I like the Wraith Engine over Nightmare since there are matchups where you can jam the Engine into people's faces and they can't kill it (or just get elbowed out of zones for a turn, which is also fine).

Got a game in tonight with the PDenni tier list. I played against Menoth and Kreoss3. It was anti-magic all over the damn place. He had two Reckoners, Vanquisher, Revenger, Hierophant, Errants with Seneschal, Roven, Choir, and Daughters. Ok, so I am not casting spells this game. Didn't even matter!! I feat turn 1 defensively, because I somehow lost the starting roll. He is unable to answer the feat, and the killing begins on my turn. Between my Seethers and a Ripjaw, both Reckoners fall. The Daughters were a pain in my ass the whole game, but I ended up being able to get rid of all of them by turn 4. 3 Stalkers kept the Errants occupied mot of the game. They could not hit me, and I couldn't hit them either. With the Daughters dead, my Mechanithralls got a late game charge off and killed the Revenger. The Vanquisher would end up finishing off my Seethers, but it was too little too late for Protectorate. He had nothing contesting one of the zones and I scored it twice for two points. I dominated the other zone on the last turn of the game, as my Stalkers finally took care of the Errants. With nothing really left to contest zones, Protectorate falls 5 - 0 on scenario.

I felt really good about my list, and I am committing to it. It is a very different way to play PDenni, and can deal with most things that are anti-Denni. It is a list that requires some massive finesse, but that is nothing new. I still need a massive amount of practice with this list, and it may need some final tweaking, but I LIKE IT A LOT!!!

Edited: No Surgeons in tier. Blah. Commander and Brute will have to do.