Building Mercs 2014: choosing a caster

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Building Mercs 2014: choosing a caster

Post by milothewise on March 17th 2014, 10:28 am

Looking for comments on my logic and specific list choices, detailed below. Help me, oh wise ones!

So I'm chickening out of Mercs for Cincycon (two 50 pt lists is a bit rich for my blood), but I've been trying to seriously think about what my two lists would be for mercs. My approach will be to find a go-to list that I can drop against just about anything, and only then work on my second list because of character restrictions and merc wonkiness.

So my primary is definitely a dwarf packing Thor and the Earthbreaker. That's probably Ossrum, because Snipe is just that good. He doesn't do anything else, though. A bunch of cute stuff, but nothing on par with what he does for the Earthbreaker. That list looks something like:
Ossrum +5
-Earthbreaker 19
Thor 2
Aiyanna & Holt 4
Boomhowlers 9
Kayazy + UA 10
Alexia 5
Saxon 2
Tactical Arcanist Corps 4

Bunch of stuff that doesn't need help to get in the way and do heavy lifting while the Earthbreaker supports, shoots at heavies, or gets ready to kill the caster, as the need arises.
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Re: Building Mercs 2014: choosing a caster

Post by DanS on March 17th 2014, 12:17 pm

And you are 100% locked into Dwarves for both lists?

If not, should we be conservative with our recommendations, or do you have Galleon and all the other goodys?
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Re: Building Mercs 2014: choosing a caster

Post by Crawling Chaos on March 17th 2014, 12:24 pm

Yeah, I always thought the benefit of mercs, was its versatility. With so many contracts you can cover a lot of based without running into character restriction issues.

Also, you may want to wait to see what the Cephalax do. If they all ally with Cryx, you may be buying them anyway.

P.S. Masters requires 3 lists. Just a thought.
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Re: Building Mercs 2014: choosing a caster

Post by milothewise on March 17th 2014, 4:26 pm

Second list does not have to be dwarves, but it won't be Cephalyx. Simply not enough overlap with what I already own. I'd like to theorymachine the BEST list, and build toward it (slowly).

That said, I do think a Durgen list with AD Primed Pirates and multiple heavies to piece trade is a pretty good compliment to the above.
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Re: Building Mercs 2014: choosing a caster

Post by DanS on March 17th 2014, 5:02 pm

milothewise wrote:That said, I do think a Durgen list with AD Primed Pirates and multiple heavies to piece trade is a pretty good compliment to the above.
I played against that once at a major tourney, the only reason that I won was because the Old Witch conveniently had a trench to stand in on her side of the board.  (I chose sides)  If I remember correctly...

Durgen
~Basher
Kayazy Eliminators
Kayazy Eliminators
Press Gangers (max)
Press Gangers (max)
Sea Dog Crew (max) + 1 rifle
Hawk
Bosun
Doc
Rockbottom
Dougal
Reinholt
Ragman
Thor
~Avalancher

So much jam and attrition!
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Re: Building Mercs 2014: choosing a caster

Post by DanS on March 17th 2014, 5:07 pm

If I had to pick a caster out of Mercs right now it would probably have to be Bart.

Top 3 would be Shae, Bart, or McBaine!.

Bart
~Galleon
Wrong Eye
~Snapjaw
~Bull Snapper
Sea Dogs
~ Mr Walls
Bosun
Rockbottom
Hawk
Doc
McNaile
Reinholt
Press Gangers (min)
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Re: Building Mercs 2014: choosing a caster

Post by milothewise on March 17th 2014, 7:54 pm

I think MacBaine does more for my gameplan, overall - Fail Safe and Jackhammer are awfully good buffs for the Galleon. I'm not sure how to build him, though. 
MacBaine +6
-Galleon 18
-Wishy Washy 2
Units (Pirates?)
Solos (Pirates?)
...is usually my thought process. Could be anything, I guess. AD with the Feat to build and maintain scenario pressure is the plan, with Galleon anchoring. 

Durgen I have a better head for. Your list is close, but it needs less Avalancher, and Thor is in my Earthbreaker list.
Durgen +6
-Driller x2 12
-Basher 7
McNaile  2
Reinholdt  1
Press Gangers x2 12
Hawk 2
Halbrediers x2 12
Rhupert 2
6 more points for assorted solos - probably Rag Man and two pirates.

There is one theme I'm picking up on - I need to buy me some Press Gangers.
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Re: Building Mercs 2014: choosing a caster

Post by Slowerlitespeed on March 17th 2014, 11:19 pm

I like the Durgen list a lot, Nick.  My only question is, does it have enough end game?  One thing I have noticed is that attrition lists, like this one, have a tough time ending the game, sometimes.  Just my two cents, so far.

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Re: Building Mercs 2014: choosing a caster

Post by milothewise on March 18th 2014, 1:05 pm

Durgen's endgame is either going to be scenario or "I have a POW 14 gun," depending on the opposing caster. Everything hits like a truck - Primed and Redline are crazy good. Is that good enough to cover matchups the Earthbreaker isn't stellar in? Not yet sure. 

In that vein - I am pretty disappointed to not be abusing Gun Mages in either list. I feel like I should be taking Damiano or Ashlynn just to give them a place to shine. And by shine, I mean kill the fuck out of Cryx matchups.
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Re: Building Mercs 2014: choosing a caster

Post by DanS on March 18th 2014, 2:32 pm

A quick word of caution.

I have run into a lot of Merc pairing that boil down to both lists having a Colossal and some random units.  I bring whatever list can crack a Colossal and I am golden.

I don't know if there is anything you can do to get around it...it just makes list selection vs. Mercs really easy.
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Re: Building Mercs 2014: choosing a caster

Post by milothewise on March 20th 2014, 9:22 pm

That definitely seems to be the trap a lot of them are falling into at the moment. Maybe you can go for multiple well-balanced lists and that won't matter?


Last edited by milothewise on April 7th 2014, 10:39 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Building Mercs 2014: choosing a caster

Post by milothewise on April 7th 2014, 10:36 am

Alright, let's get back into this:

I think I have settled on Gorten as my Earthbreaker caster. He just does more for the rest of his army, and the Rock Wall is such a good way to protect either himself or Gerkin (my wife took the liberty of naming my Earthbreaker):

Gorten Grundback (*7pts)
* Ghordson Earthbreaker (19pts)
Alexia Ciannor & the Risen (Alexia and 9 Risen Grunts) (5pts)
Greygore Boomhowler & Co. (Boomhowler and 9 Grunts) (9pts)
Kayazy Assassins (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
* Kayazy Assassin Underboss (2pts)
Lady Aiyana & Master Holt (4pts)
Tactical Arcanist Corps (4pts)
Ragman (2pts)
Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord (2pts)
Thor Steinhammer (2pts)


To compliment this, and in light of our previous discussion about working to not have two Colossal lists, I'm looking at Damiano (mostly because I feel like my second list should be abusing the shit out of Gun Mages):

Captain Damiano (*6pts)
* Gallant (9pts)
* Rocinante (9pts)
* Sylys Wyshnalyrr, the Seeker (2pts)
Arcane Tempest Gun Mages (Leader and 5 Grunts) (6pts)
* Arcane Tempest Gun Mage Officer (2pts)
Press Gangers (Leader and 9 Grunts) (6pts)
Steelhead Halberdiers (Leader and 9 Grunts) (6pts)
Eiryss, Angel of Retribution (3pts)
First Mate Hawk (2pts)
Gorman di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist (2pts)
Rorsh & Brine (9pts)


Highlights:
-All the heavies have access to out-of-activation movement, making the list as a whole much faster
-Hawk is a FANTASTIC Sure Foot target

Problems:
-Terrain makes me a sad panda
-I don't own 80% of these models

Thoughts?


Last edited by milothewise on April 7th 2014, 10:49 am; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : What the hell is the default color for text?)
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Re: Building Mercs 2014: choosing a caster

Post by pg.Affliction on April 7th 2014, 12:15 pm

What the hell is the default color for text?

The default color in the CSS is #B3A78D.

Also if you have issues and want it default just erase the [color] brackets around the text. If you dont see those change your posting format.

See here:(in the forum feature section)
http://www.cincinnatiwarmachine.com/t7-a-couple-of-the-features-on-the-forums

If you have any other questions or concerns just let me know.
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Re: Building Mercs 2014: choosing a caster

Post by pg.Affliction on April 7th 2014, 1:32 pm

I am not sure if this was the start of your issue, it happened to me the first time I tried it, but if you do a copy/paste from Forward Kommander it shows up in red unless you paste it in the non-wysiwyg format. Just look at that link above. Its just a simple click.

Once you paste what you want just click it back to the wysiwyg format if that is what you prefer.
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Re: Building Mercs 2014: choosing a caster

Post by Celebros on April 10th 2014, 11:15 am

Focus seems like a problem in your Damiano list.  

I'm just not sure you will have enough focus throughout the game to warrant using Warpath (which I'm assuming your out-of-activation movement comment is referencing), as without dropping most of Damiano's buffs and not casting Deadeye, you just won't be able to allocate more than 1-2 focus between the two 'jacks.  You might consider adding Harlan Versh to the list though, as that can at least give you a free focus for Gallant via Accumulator.


The current Damiano list I am playing ends up forgoing Warpath all together for this reason and just uses Rocinante.
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Re: Building Mercs 2014: choosing a caster

Post by Celebros on April 10th 2014, 11:31 am

I also see a turn one issue, particularly as you seem to be going for a relatively speedy list.

Depending on which buffs you put out turn one you will only be able to run 0-1 warjacks.

Sure Foot + Death March = 0 focus to allocate
Sure Foot + Warpath = 1 focus to allocate

Seems like your 'jacks might struggle to keep up.
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Re: Building Mercs 2014: choosing a caster

Post by DeadGuySaysWhat on April 10th 2014, 1:35 pm

Damiano isn't a jack list, you bring a cheap jack to troubleshoot during feat turn, Pow 20's are no joke with a reach weapon on a cheap 'jack.  Not to mention the infantry attacks.  

Personally I've been experimenting with a single jack, either Rocinante, a Nomad, or even a Mangler and I don't think he needs much more.
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Re: Building Mercs 2014: choosing a caster

Post by milothewise on April 10th 2014, 7:00 pm

Good points. I think I want to TRY leveraging Warpath - if nothing else, just to make sure I don't brush it off unnecessarily. My other list is going to be much less mobile because of Gorten and the Earthbreaker, so it would be nice if it all works out as I imagine and I can have hard-hitting threats where I need them throughout the game.  

I like the THEORY of having a couple of heavies for the late game, especially since they both have such good defensive utility until then. I'd really like both my lists to be able to reliably crack ARM, so multiple heavies feels like a good take.

Versh would be excellent. I plan on trying him out in Gorman's spot after some initial testing.

Focus-wise, he can handle all this with Sylas (in theory). Sure Foot on Hawk and Death March on the Steelheads need to go out turn one. Turn two is upkeeping and casting Deadeye, maybe casting Warpath if it will be relevant the following turn. That still lets me run a jack into position or boost a gun shot. 

Turn three is hopefully feat turn, when I can leverage the STR buff and kill something significant. That's the first time I'll need/want to load up a jack, and Death March can probably lapse at that point, so I can still Deadeye and upkeep Sure Foot and Warpath.

It all needs testing, but that's the plan Smile!
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Re: Building Mercs 2014: choosing a caster

Post by Celebros on April 11th 2014, 10:25 am

I'm interested to hear how your Warpath experimentation goes.  

After playing Kreoss3 using Warpath with Protectorate 'jacks at FOC 7 and with all of the extra focus he has access to (Hierophant/Wracks/Reclaimer), Warpath on Damiano and Mercenary 'jacks just doesn't pack the same punch.  Sylys certainly helps (he's in my Damiano list as well), but that focus is just so tight in-game - particularly if you need to swap Sure Foot back to Damiano/Rocinante at some point.


Last edited by Celebros on April 11th 2014, 11:00 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Building Mercs 2014: choosing a caster

Post by milothewise on April 11th 2014, 10:58 am

It's not a perfect plan. Smile
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Re: Building Mercs 2014: choosing a caster

Post by Servo on April 11th 2014, 5:39 pm

As a Cryx player, I love it when my opponents spend focus to kill my models

Assassination Astro Glide
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Re: Building Mercs 2014: choosing a caster

Post by milothewise on April 12th 2014, 2:17 pm

Servo wrote:As a Cryx player, I love it when my opponents spend focus to kill my models
You know what they like more? Deadeyed Gun Mages Smile.
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Re: Building Mercs 2014: choosing a caster

Post by Slowerlitespeed on April 12th 2014, 9:41 pm

milothewise wrote:
Servo wrote:As a Cryx player, I love it when my opponents spend focus to kill my models
You know what they like more? Deadeyed Gun Mages Smile.
Truth. Gunmages shooting with Deadeye are a thing I have nightmares about

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